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Mrinalini AtreyINTERVIEW EXCLUSIVEJAMMU: The Jammu region stands as a vibrant tapestry woven from music, arts, dances, traditional attires, architectural marvels, indigenous construction techniques, unique language, and a plethora of other cultural gems, creating a kaleidoscope of heritage and traditions that are unlike any other. This resounding assertion has been made by Dr. Mrinalini Atrey, a distinguished historian with a PhD specializing in the intangible cultural heritage of the Jammu region. Her focus spans local deity cults, folk rituals, folk narrative songs, and the pivotal role of women in transmitting and revitalizing this intangible cultural heritage.

In an exclusive online interview conducted by Ajmer Alam Wani, Editor-in-Chief of JK Monitor (www.jkmonitor.org), Dr. Atrey, who currently serves as a Lecturer at The Law School, University of Jammu, stressed the paramount importance of preserving these cultural markers for posterity.

The ever-expanding influence of globalization, coupled with the threats posed by natural disasters and conflicts, particularly militancy, have rendered both tangible and intangible aspects of heritage vulnerable to destruction. Dr. Atrey passionately noted that the irreplaceable loss of monuments, artworks, or culinary traditions that have thrived for centuries is a grievous blow to both the economy and the collective emotion of a region.

With an urgent call to action, Dr. Atrey urged community involvement to safeguard these treasures, asserting that future generations may rightfully question the present if these legacies falter under our watch, as we have done with our forebears.

Among Dr. Atrey's foremost objectives is the comprehensive documentation of the built heritage along the historic Mughal Road. As the Coordinator of the India Chapter, she is spearheading roundtable discussions on Heritage Laws in India, highlighting the importance of legal frameworks in preserving cultural heritage.

Dr. Atrey's fascination with history and literature from a young age propelled her towards investigating the caste system in the Jammu Region up to the 12th century AD for her doctoral research. Through this journey, she recognized the scarcity of conventional resources, particularly in the socio-cultural history domain. It was through the study of local deity cults and associated practices that she gained insights into the intricate caste complexities in the region.

Her research spotlights the long-overlooked role of women, whose narratives remained largely undocumented until the emergence of feminist movements in the 1970s. UNESCO's pivotal role in advocating research and publications related to women globally was underscored by Dr. Atrey.

She expounded on the significance of intangible cultural heritage as a wellspring of identity and cohesion for community members, with women playing a pivotal role in its transmission. Dr. Atrey highlighted that within the realm of intangible heritage in Jammu, women have often maintained autonomy in domains such as rituals, arts, handicrafts, and social family/community life.

Narratives from history, like Gulabnama and Rajadarshini, occasionally touch upon women's roles within customs such as sati and female infanticide. However, while folklore collectors have offered insights, interpretative analysis remains limited.

Dr. Atrey's work seeks to restore the narrative about women's roles in the Jammu region, showcasing their involvement in rituals, artistic creation, preservation of traditional knowledge, and folk narratives. Notably, her research aligns harmoniously with her teaching, allowing her to share her informative and innovative insights with her students.

The amalgamation of activities like rituals, handicrafts, paintings, dance, and music, intertwined with stories of women's bravery and adversity, becomes a cultural chronicle of the Jammu region. Dr. Atrey shared a poignant anecdote of a stone structure in the village of Tikri, Udhampur, symbolizing sacrifice. This structure has become part of a Dogri folktale, with the narrative beginning at the moment of 'Vidai' - when a bride leaves her parental home after marriage rites.

One of Dr. Atrey's prime challenges revolves around documenting local deities and deciphering their narrative songs (Karakas and Bars), which often feature archaic terminology. She also cited security concerns hindering her documentation of the built heritage along the old Mughal Road.

Dr. Mrinalini Atrey's unwavering dedication to preserving the rich cultural heritage of the Jammu region underscores the urgency of collective action. Through her research, she unearths the hidden stories, untangles the threads of tradition, and champions the voices of women who have been integral to shaping this vibrant legacy.

For the detailed interview, read questions and answers below till end:-

  1. Can you start by telling us about your background and what inspired you to pursue a PhD in History, focusing on the intangible cultural heritage of the Jammu region?

Answer: I chose history as my major at Higher Secondary and Graduation level and carried it to Post Graduate degree and then of course, the Doctorate in the same subject. As kid I was fascinated by history and literature and by the time I graduated, I had already read Bacon, Shakespeare, and Will Durant (The Story of Civilization, Story of Philosophy and The Pleasures of Philosophy). Thanks to the legacy from my father, I was well acquainted with Historians like Ranke, Romila Thapar, Koshambi and their works.

By the time I started with my research, obviously the choice was Jammu region. I took up the Caste system in the Jammu Region from ancient times till 12th century AD as the topic for my doctorate. This is time when I became aware of the meagerness of the conventional resources especially in the field of socio-cultural History.

I interacted with few scholars and read their works where they had reconstructed historical narratives for non-literate societies using alternative sources. This turned me to the study of local deities and the local deity cult became the main tool to investigate the social structure and relations in the region. With local deities came the associated rituals and narratives in the form of Karaks and Bars.

This resulted into my forays in the area of living heritage of Jammu region and since then I have been delving into Intangible heritage/tangible heritage and using the same as a source to understand socio- cultural practices in the region. But then I did not stop at just reconstruction of the historical Narrative but also started working in the direction of documentation and safeguarding of the heritage.

  1. Your research primarily centers around Local Deity Cults, Folk Rituals, Folk Narrative Songs, and the role of women in the transmission and recreation of intangible cultural heritage. Could you elaborate on why you chose these specific aspects for your research, and what significance they hold in the context of Jammu's cultural heritage?

Answer: As already said above, I have been using the above-mentioned aspects of living heritage as an alternative source for reconstructing the historical narrative. Local deity cult and its associated practices became a major tool to understand caste complexities in the region.

So far as the women are concerned, we cannot ignore the fact that they are the inventors of the most fundamental aspects of our life and culture-rituals and ceremonies, arts and crafts, culinary skills, collective memory in form of oral narratives, songs and legends, and the traditional healing systems-all that constitute traditional knowledge.

Even though a significant contributor in sustaining this planet, their part has been eclipsed and undermined. Constituting half of the population in any community, yet her role was ignored by the intellectuals, writing elitist history. But, with changes in the framework of history, other stories of the past also came to be written.

Her story remained largely undocumented till the emergence of the feminist movements in the 1970s. UNESCO has also played an important role in encouraging research and publications related to women in different regions of the world.

Notwithstanding such efforts in bringing out the narrative on women, there are still many areas, where her story is not forthcoming. The problem becomes more dismal when such regions do not have enough sources to build up the narrative. In such a case, we need to look for those sources which ordinarily do not qualify as conventional sources. These may be summed up in the form of heritage, especially intangible heritage. Therefore ICH may be used as an alternative source.

We know that Intangible Cultural Heritage provides an identity as well as consistency to each community member becoming ‘a source of cultural diversity and human creativity’. Women also play a vital part in its transmission.

They perform the principal role in raising children, through which the intergenerational transmission and renewal of many forms of intangible heritage occur. In maintaining and passing on intangible culture to future generations, women also recreate and transform culture. As such, this role of women in maintaining and transmitting intangible heritage, particularly within local cultural contexts can be used to build her story.

So far as Jammu region is concerned, here within the domain of intangible heritage, there are many areas where women have maintained a substantial degree of autonomy, from which men have been excluded, or to which they have had only limited (or recent) access. This is especially true in the area of rituals and the arts, especially handicrafts, paintings, songs, and dances, and also in organizing, shaping, and controlling the social life of the families and the communities.

This relationship between women and ICH as an area of research has remained an uncharted domain in the Jammu region. That the region since its accession to India in October 1947 has been witnessing border conflicts and terrorism has resulted in these issues being the dominant narrative. Women narratives, a few of which have come up, also are in this context.

Not many works related to women’s role in history and her status has been the focus of attention. Women find mention in few historical narratives such as Gulabnama and Rajadarshini in the context of customs like sati and female infanticide. Though few folklore collectors have documented some information regarding women in their works however there is a lack of interpretative analysis in them. Duggar Diya Itihasik Naariya (Historical women of Duggar Land)) published in 2005 by Siva Nirmohi may be mentioned as the only narrative on women. It is a kind of documentation of important women-princesses, warriors, social workers of Jammu. The major drawback is that information is very limited. The author mentions only names but no interpretative research.

So I am trying to reconstruct a narrative about women in the Jammu region, which has been overlooked by understanding her involvement in rituals, making of arts and crafts, and as the custodian of traditional knowledge and folk narratives.

  1. Your monograph, "Deity, Cult, Rituals and Oral Traditions in Jammu Region," has been widely acclaimed. Could you provide an overview of the key findings and insights you presented in this work?

Answer: The Monograph is a modest attempt to highlight the importance of the study of the Local Deity cult and the rituals and oral traditions associated with it, to understand the socio-cultural processes in the Jammu Region. Their study helps us to understand that Local deities of Jammu region now form a part of the broader brahmanical fold but they do not seem to be brahmanical in origin. This becomes evident on the basis of the identification of their aboriginal characteristics in the deities such as:

Names of the local deities like Khair, Bhair, Cherna, Masal etc are non-Sanskritic in origin. These words appear to be part of the local dialect.

Secondly, even if they got brahmanised, their brahmanisation was never so complete as to totally obliterate their tribal characteristics. As a result, both the traditions that is Brahmanical and the tribal one existed side by side or even in the features of one deity. A case in point would be deities such as Jugga devta and Jakh devta who are worshipped in both non-iconographic and iconographic form indicating the simultaneous co-existence of both aboriginal and brahmanical form. Very few deities like Kichen Devta and Khair Devta are worshipped only in icon form confirming complete brahmanisation.

Another aboriginal feature is the continuity of non-Brahmana priestly class at the shrines of these deities. This aspect is in contrast to the brahmanical tradition at pan India level. We find Ladda Thakhur priest at Mandora shrine, Katoch Rajputs at Bansul Devta shrines, whereas at Palali Devta shrine it is Bassn Thakkurs. Moreover, other persons connected with different rituals performed at these shrines belong to lowest strata of the society especially from the Megh and Doom castes.

Also, it is the families with aboriginal roots only, who owe allegiance to local deity cult and revere them as their kula deities. The clans of Punjabi Khatris and other tribes that migrated in recent times do not worship them as kula deities. The non-local such as Shuklas, Srivats Gulatis, Malhotras etc. do not have their local deities in the region. They mainly worship the Gods of Brahmanical Pantheon such as Vishnu, Krishna, Rama etc. whom they consider as their family deities. Now some of them Like Aroras have declared Raja Mandleek as their deity. This should be seen as their attempt to get integrated into the local society.

Similarly we have also noted that many of the local goddesses like Sukrala Mata, Chichi Mata have been identified with goddesses Durga and her variant versions but the incorporation is not complete. They have not been provided with spouses and maintain their independent existence on the periphery of brahmanincal orthodoxy.

Therefore, the above observations show that these deities had an autochthonous origin and in course of historical process many of them have been assimilated into the brahmanical pantheon. Those who have been left out of the process are still maintaining their independent existence within the brahmanical fold. Thus we see the simultaneous co-existence of little tradition with greater tradition.

Apart from the aboriginal characteristics, these local deities exhibit some other distinctive features as well such as:

These local deities enjoy well-established hierarchy among themselves with village god/gramdevta at the lowest and then sub regional and regional level. Beyond regional level lie the deities who have attained Pan-Indian popularity, the example being Vaishno Devi.

Another interesting point is to be seen in the geographical distribution of the deities. Naga devtas and Gram devtas are largely concentrated in hilly pockets especially in Bhaderwaha, Kishtwar ,Rajouri ,Udhampur Reasi and Katra. This is probably due to the tribal nature of the area. We know that local deities in form of Village and Naga deties are characterstics feature of the tribal life. On the other hand, Shaheed devtas and Sati Deities are concentrated in Plains. This can be explained in terms of conflicts associated with transition from pastoral to agricultural life. The cattle raids, boundary disputes and atrocities of feudal lords are connected with agricultural economy, therefore such disputes would take place where agricultural is practiced therefore scene of was Plains.

  1. We understand that you are currently working on narratives, legends, and anecdotes connected with the built heritage of the Jammu region, particularly focusing on temples, Baolis (step-wells), and Sarais (Inns) on the traditional routes. What motivated you to explore this area of research, and how do you think it complements your earlier work on intangible cultural heritage?

Answer: Routes connect people and places. There is the interaction of movement, along the route, in space and time.” Jammu region has a network of routes which form apart of the pilgrimage network like the Purmandal-Surinsar-Mansar route network or Mansar- Surinsar- Vaishno Devi track. Along with them there is network of trade routes roads showing interactive movements of people as well as multi-dimensional, continuous and recipro­cal exchanges of goods, ideas, knowledge and values within or with other regions countries over significant periods of time, and thereby generating a cross-fertilization of the cultures in space and time, which is reflected both in its tangible and intangible heritage.

I am documenting the narratives connected with built heritage on these routes which helps to understand not the economic and cultural practices of the people, they help us to know background of the builders who got them built and the reasons.

  1. Being associated with various National and International organizations, such as ACHS India Chapter, ICOMOS-India, ACHS ICH NETWORK, and ISFNR, how have these collaborations enriched your research and contributed to the preservation and promotion of cultural heritage?

Answer: Association with these organizations has helped me to make contributions in the field of heritage at national and international level. Through these institutions I am trying to bring together scholars, practitioners and community to build up dialogue network to understand heritage issues in India.

As the coordinator of ACHS India Chapter, attempt has been made to initiate trans-disciplinary based research and help in building a common ground for scholars working in or on India. And look into how heritage has been developed, framed, used in India.

As the Coordinator of As the Coordinator of NSC ICH, ICOMOS India, organised E-Symposium on Intangible Cultural Heritage For Sustainable management of Historic Towns in South Asia: Theory to Practice which was spaced out into five thematic sessions in the month of June-July 2021. This initiated a discourse on Intangible heritage in historic towns

Supervised a Project titled, developing an online Repository of extant ICH inventories in India and creating a comprehensive ICH Documentation Format Framework for the sector, a project under Research and Development Programme of ICOMOS India from June 2020-April 2020.

One of the coordinators of Case studies For the Preparation of A Detailed Format, Database& Inventory of Intangible Cultural Heritage within Cultural routes, A collaborative Project of National Scientific Committees of ICOMOS India. 2019-2020.

Association with ISFNR has helped me to develop narrative on folklore and folk traditions of Jammu region.

  1. As the coordinator of the ACHS India Chapter and the National Scientific Committee on Intangible Cultural Heritage, what initiatives have you undertaken to raise awareness about the importance of safeguarding intangible cultural heritage in India?

Answer: Have been organizing workshops and seminars for the students and scholars in collaboration with such international organizations like ICICH to equip the local scholars with tools and methodologies to work in the field of heritage.

  1. Your NGO, Virasat (Society for the Study of Cultural Heritage of Jammu and Kashmir Jammu), founded in 2017, has been actively involved in cultural heritage preservation. Could you share some of the key projects and activities undertaken by Virasat, and how it has made a positive impact on the local communities?

Answer: Before Covid Virasat has been organizing baithak and Tawi Aarti regularly on the banks of River Tawi, where people were invited and made aware of the need to protect Tawi which is not only source of livelihood but as our identity as well.

Virasat in collaboration with Sanrakshan Pvt. Limited, New Delhi mapped the Architectural heritage of old Jammu city. It also conducts heritage walks from time to time.

  1. How do you approach the challenge of balancing your responsibilities as a lecturer at The Law School, University of Jammu, and your extensive research and involvement with various organizations?

Answer: My research and job are complementary to each other, rather I would say they are interlinked. My research makes me more informative and innovative and I share the same with my students. The knowledge gained is put into practice while teaching history and history can be taught in various innovative ways. It is said that heritage professionals are the custodians of History so being a heritage professional and a Historian makes the job more exciting. Moreover, the support from the family and the office administration which helps me going.

  1. Your work touches upon the contributions of women in the transmission and recreation of intangible cultural heritage. Could you elaborate on some of the significant findings you've made in this area, and how it has shed light on the often-underrepresented role of women in cultural preservation?

Answer: All these activities-rituals, handicrafts, paintings, dance, and music- and her stories of atrocities and bravery in form of Sati Karaks form a cultural document of the Jammu region. It emerges from the vast collective consciousness of the women which inadvertently gets scripted in their activity. The way women interact with each other and with the audience around them, during these performances, gives us an insight into the beliefs of this group, their relations with male counterparts. As this heritage is a source of identity for them, there is a great need to study and connect the vast resources on women’s indigenous culture to bring in their narrative. This study becomes more important as in the area of women and heritage, there is a lack of systematic research in the Jammu region.

Therefore Women and heritage in Jammu region should be seen within this framework of the narrative building as well. This area needs to be addressed in the form of inter-disciplinary dialogue with the field-work being an anthropological study, literary evidence was sourced out from works in the area of history, folklore, Sociology, cultural heritage, and Gender studies. It may further require the need to be open to new paradigms, models, tools, and theories that might emerge in the course of working with local data and social conditions. This might involve adding to and/or modifying already existing theoretical approaches related to women and Intangible cultural heritage.

  1. In your research on narratives, legends, and anecdotes connected with the built heritage of the Jammu region, what are some of the most fascinating stories or discoveries you've come across so far?

Answer: There are so many: There is a site in the hilly village Tikri (Udhampur, Jammu) where a structure of stones still stands as a symbol of sacrifice. Now a part of the Dogri folktale where the story starts with 'Vidai'(when the bride leaves her house after the solemnisation of marriage rituals. This folktale has already been staged as a play titled ‘Ghumayee’ by Natrang Theatre and has received international acclaim.

As the story goes, the bride felt thirsty while on her way to her in-law’s house but was not provided water. As the track becomes strenuous, her thirst increased but repeated requests were met with the assurance of water at the next available source. After some distance, when her thirst became unbearable, her Doli (bride-carriage) was put down and the marriage procession was halted.

The water source was found in the deep gorge which was difficult to access. The bridegroom requested people around to fetch water but no one came forward. Then a young man, putting his life in danger was able to fetch water from the gorge. Though the bride’s thirst was quenched the young man died due to fatigue. The bridegroom’s family wanted to continue with the marriage procession but the bride refused to do so. She declared herself a widow and started crying a wail, Ghumayee in the local language, giving her life.

Second is the Baradari of Raja Balwant Singh of Surinsar, where Nainsukh worked out famous Pahari paintings, now in Ruins.

Surinsar, known for its beautiful fresh water lake and a resort, was once famous for Baradari of Raja Balwant Dev (younger brother of Maharaja Ranjit Dev).He was Jagirdar of Surinsar and surrounding area. As a connoisseur of arts he gave patronage to many artists which included Nainsukh, the famous Pahari painter. This Baradari was the centre of entertainment where musicians and dancers from Punjab and Jammu gave their performances. Nainsukh has immortalised this Baradari in his paintings which now adorn the walls of art galleries all over the world.

  1. How do you engage with local communities, custodians of heritage sites, and other stakeholders during your research process? How important is it to involve these communities in the preservation and interpretation of their own cultural heritage?

Answer: Being a local, it is easy to interact with the local communities and understand their view point. But, still one finds little difficulty in having conversation with the people in rural areas.

Involvement of the communities, groups and individuals who own the heritage is must. Cultural heritage belongs to the community or the group that creates it and transmits it across generations. UNESCO through its conventions and operational guidelines has been reiterating the role of communities. NGOs which have proven competence, expertise and experience should be involved.

  1. Could you share some of the challenges you've encountered in your research on intangible cultural heritage and built heritage, and how you've overcome them?

Answer: There were numerous in the initial phase of my research, when I started treading the unknown path. But with the passage of time, one develops the skill to overcome such things. My main challenge was in documenting the local deities and deconstructing their narrative songs (Karakas and Bars) as they had lot of obsolete words.

I am still facing the problem of documenting the built heritage on the old Mughal Road due to security reasons.

  1. In the context of modernization and globalization, how do you see the future of Jammu's intangible cultural heritage and built heritage? What steps can be taken to ensure their continuity and relevance for future generations?

Answer: The cultural heritage, living tradition and identity of the place, reflects the values of the past and a future to look for. The music, the arts, the dances, the traditional attires, the building materials, construction technology, the language, and other forms of cultural legacy makes Jammu region a unique kaleidoscope of rich heritage and traditions.

These markers of identity have to be preserved for the future generations. However, due to globalization, natural disaster or due to conflicts (militancy), the tangible and intangible aspects are becoming easy targets of destruction. The economic and emotional loss of a lost monument, a forgotten art work, or a cuisine practice that existed for centuries can never be recovered.

Therefore it is urgently required that we as a community start working in this direction less our coming generations are going to question us, the way we are doing with our senior generation.

  1. As an accomplished researcher and academic, what advice would you give to young scholars and students interested in pursuing research in the field of cultural heritage, particularly focusing on intangible heritage?

Answer: Focus on ethnographic fieldwork. Look into the importance of local histories for an analysis of cultures to understand specific cultural traits-the behaviours, beliefs and symbols-they need to be examined in their local context. They should adopt bottom approach in place of top down.

  1. Finally, what are your future plans and upcoming projects in the realm of cultural heritage research and preservation? Are there any new areas of study or collaborations you are looking forward to exploring?

Answer: My foremost priority is to complete the documentation of built heritage on the Mughal Road. As the Coordinator of India Chapter, we are going to start with roundtable related to Heritage Laws in India.

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